Hello,
I"ve been training for 5-6 months now, and generally I am starting from top when it comes to rolling. I haven't pulled guard since I started, figuring I should earn to pass guards and focus on top game first. I've been drilled starting from guard and my guard is easily passed. I've attribute this to lack of practice. It got me thinking about starting to work a guard game more. My question is this:
1. Is there a general consensus for relatively new person to start? guard or top?
2. and is there a general consensus about when one should try to do the other (working top for a while, but switch to guard)?
or am i simply doing it wrong hahaha?
Since you're new to BJJ, I would suggest working both your top and bottom games equally. At first you're really just introducing your body to the movements from each position, and you want to get plenty of reps from all positions.
Like you, I have a better top game and my instinct is never to pull guard. However, I fight that instinct when rolling because I don't want to develop a lopsided game (which I already have, to an extent -- I just want my bottom game to catch up). My general rule is to work on what you are worst at, particularly when rolling with someone less skilled.
When I'm rolling with someone whom I know isn't as advanced, I make it a point to pull guard so I can improve the weaker area of my game. If I play to my strength (my top game) against a lower-level student, I know I'm going to dominate him and probably not learn a whole lot because he won't be able to exploit the holes in my top game. But since I have bigger holes in my guard game, a lower-level student might be able to give me more trouble and help me identify and address my weaknessses.
Sorry for the rambling... I got off track a bit. Anyway, to answer your questions.
1. I don't think so. I say do both equally.
2. Again, I wouldn't focus on one over the other and switch back and forth. At white belt I'd just work on both regularly. Once you're a blue or purple belt, then you can focus your training a little more. But for now, just do a bit of everything.
I would say new guys generally start on top, because often when your first starting its more natural to be on top...keep your balance and work from there, although this is not always the case. Lots of times smaller guys end up on the bottom (do to their size---especially when inexperienced) and therefore tend to develope decent guards a little quicker than some of the really big guys IMO. Ofcoarse this is not always the case, there are definetly big dudes that have awesome guards.
I know for myself I developed a guard first, because I trained with a lot of better guys (and as Im smaller) I found myself being swept often and working off my back anyways. I didnt really start developeing a decent top game untill my sweeps and subs got to the point where I could get on top of most of my opponents, at which point I was forced to learn the top game. For me I was probably 70/30 (Guard/Top) untill Blue, then when m guard started getting effective it rounded out a little more to 50/50.
So I think to answer your question it really depends on your skill level...If you feel your top game is coming along nicely, it might be time to start to develope a guard...because for sure if you dont work it, its going to get passed.
For it was the same as for Avenged. During the first months I was always on top, but after moving to another city and gym, everyone training was freaking huge compared to me, big muscular MMA guys. So I ended up working my guard. As they weren't really very technical, I found the omoplata and flower sweep to work wonders. From there on I improved my sweeps and submissions and finally as a purple belt I finally feel very comfortable on top. But this is a result of my sweeps working much better and me spending most my time on top instead of in guard. I don't know what would be the best way to go, but atleast this is how it worked for me.
When I got started I got smashed a lot and higher belts will continue to do that to you for a very long time. So, I learned from the bottom first and as my guard progressed and I was able to defend, sweep and attack better, my top game improved. Position is one thing and submission is another. Submissions (not one or two here and there, but more consistently) started coming after I better stacked moves, and improved my feel, you start to know what they are going to do and be a step ahead.
This is interesting thread, I can’t imagine being new and better on top first and then working from the bottom. Two white belts is different, I mean when you first start and roll with better guys which is more than likely, the whole gym. I would get swept almost instantly and then I was in defend and survive mode for quite a while.
I am about 6'3" and about 190, so I am not a little guy at all. It is the same for me was everyone else. I started and got forced to the bottom. I am really glad that it happened that way because I started rolling with higher belts more often and I had to develop my guard and learn to survive. I am getting really good at getting to the top now, so I have been working my top game more. I agree with Victor about it being odd for a new person to spend more time on top then bottom. Do you have experience wrestling by chance?
I would personally work both equally as much. As soon as you get against more experienced people you are going to regret not working your guard more. Being not well rounded will lead to you getting dominated with someone who also has a good top game (wrestlers).
For me I found myself working more top when i started now when we start i dont even get on my knees i stay seated and try to work from half. I think everyone goes through phases of different positions. A couple months ago i was working nothing but deep half. I think it needs to work this way because there is so much to learn you need to focus on one area at a time. If you are really strong in that area then it is time to move on. When you are comfortable in one are that more than likely your game is not getting better. Keep challenging yourself.
Don't wish for it to be easier. Wish for you to be better.
My personal preference would be to start people from the guard first. Simply because I think there is a lot of value learning all the survival skills you will need and the proper use of leverage and your hips. learning the proper defensive postures, escapes, where to keep your hands and elbows, how to block the cross-face, learning to relax under pressure, dealing with the discomfort of the mount, side-mount, knee on belly, etc, are all valuable skills. Not just for competition, but also for self defense. One thing that is definitely a common theme for beginners is you will spend some considerable time on your back, why not embrace that and learn around it? Unless you are the biggest strongest guy in the school and nobody can sweep you except the black and Brown belts, even then, I would say learn a good guard first and you will have a more complete game faster since the top game will come more natural for you. Just my 2 cents.
"If you show up for a decade, eventually you will quit sucking" - Forrest Griffin on Training Jiu Jitsu
I find I go through positional phases as well...I'll find myself unconsciously spending like a month on De La Riva guard, then a month on spider, Then butterfly etc (although I always keep half guard if Im in trouble.) But I always seem to circle back to something else, strangly enough when I compete.
For example I did a tournament like 10 days ago. I hadnt been playing much deep half at all, but I just kept seeing opening in the tournament, and I went deep half to back mount to finish in 4 out of 8 matchs. lol so now Im playing deep half again.
learn the basics and drill them then when your a blue i say you can make and adapt your game/style
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