Wombat posted a link to this blog, I just read the post...I think its a pretty good read so Im putting up here.
http://angrygrappler.livejournal.com/34199.html
GREAT ARTICLE----I consider myself to be a good partner...i roll calmly but try to make sure the person knows im for real...this is something i take serious cause there is a chance of getting hurt and or hurting someone...for instense ,i recently had good roll with a partner of mine, 3rd or 4th time we went at it and we always have a good roll the only thing is that sometimes he hesitates to tap, which is a problem...why hold something out in training? if you got it you got it...slap hands. start over. I caught him in a deep heel hook and didnt crank at all he was pull and tugging i just started to turn my body a little and he rolled and POP!!! His knee got injured and now he is out for 2 weeks...Now if he just tapped i wouldnt be out a partner and he wouldnt be missing class.
If he doesn't tap, and you know you have the submission, why keep applying it?
Ignore the rest of this post if you didn't know you had the submission, or if the injury was caused by him continuing to roll. I don't train many heel hooks so I can't tell too well from your description. In fact, I should continue this post in abstract
HYPOTHETICALLY, if I'm dealing with a person who wont tap to a submission I know I have (e.g. if the person goes limp or I hear something pop) I immediately let off and then refuse to train with that person the rest of the day (when I ran the MMA club we started at my school I would make the person leave for the day). Our camp is our family. We should have no ego before our family (obviously this is a point I'm working on).
"Yes, these are bruises from fighting. Yes, I'm comfortable with that. I am enlightened."
Fully agree...Originally Posted by Kyduh
Being very small it happens to me all the time...I catch guys in arm-bars a lot and people continually try to get out of it...often coming to the point where I can see there arm is full extended but they still dont tap...I just let stuff go at the point, I know I had it, most of the time THEY kno I had it, why press the point? If he that much ego, then its definetly not worth my breaking his arm, I just wont roll with him next time.
I do this all the time and usually he just kinda says that i almost had that or "i was close"...i never hurt someone in training before...i feel like crap about and i asked my teacher about it and he said that this is training it happens dont loose sleep...but know your limits
I wouldnt lose any sleep over it, it does happen...People do that same thing to me all the time, lots of times they will ask me after, "dude did u have that traingle?" Or sometimes "you bastard, you let me out of that!" try not to worry about it, but just be careful...Leg attacks especially its heel hooks are very dangerous, its very easy to fuck somebodies knee up indefinetly with one wrong turn. AND some peoples knees are very insensitive, they honestly dont feel anything untill their knee pops (I know about 5 people that are like that.) Leg attacks are very catch and release in training (atleast at my club) and should also be 1 of those tap early positions...I tap on a knee bar almost as soon and I feel the person is straightening it...my knees just arent worth the ego.
I totaly agree...if I feel my leg being straightend out I tap asap.....train another day
I have accidentally almost hurt someone bad. I had side body on this guy and locked up a kimura. He somehow partially sat up on me, which didn't help his case at all, and jerked away from me. I pulled him back into me and somehow almost dislocated his shoulder. I didn't execute in any kind of violent manner at all. I know for the most part it wasn't necessarily my fault. He should have tapped. None the less, I felt like crap for the rest of the night! And I have made it my buisness from that point on to just let the submission go. It bothers me to hurt a member of my Jiu Jitsu Family. Specially over a tap. On another note, at that point in my training, I wasn't fully aware of the capabilities of a Kimura. I have alot more respect for the submission now!
Last edited by Jonathan Walton; 02-10-2010 at 01:23 PM.
Couldn't agree more!
Yeah, I have been noticing this a lot. A newer than me (which is pretty darn new) and much larger guy landed on my knee with his knee during an attempted maneuver with all his weight 3 weeks ago and its still hurts when I put pressure on it. Then another big guy who's also very clumsy falls back on my ribs, instead of sitting on my hip, when training the knee bar from standing and open guard. I heard at least 3 pops and it hurt, but I was like ok whatever training hurts sometimes. Then we were doing the try to pass open guard with no hands and them defending with no hands from their back. He put his foot on my ribs where he sat and pushed - I almost fell down. Then yesterday this kid stacks me so hard when I went for an arm he puts me right on my head and drops his entire weight on me. My shoulders didn't even touch the ground, it was all neck strain with his weight and mine. Right now I'm sitting with ice on my neck and I can't look to my right.
Now today, on the other hand, I was training with guys that were much more experienced and technical guys. I got stacked going for an arm again today, but this guy simply stacks me enough to get his arm out enough and then I went back to guard - result = the same except without injury and the other guy was much more in control after I released the arm. These are also the guys that will ACTUALLY only go 50% when you're drilling. They let you know what you need to be aware of as far as sweeps and regaining guard or whatever, but also allow you to learn the moves at a pace you are comfortable with.
So I suppose my thoughts are:
Younger/smaller players should be aware that they can still injure older/bigger opponents.
ALL players and especially bigger ones should learn the moves properly and not accept slop. If you're falling when you should be making a smooth motion, you're wrong and you need to fix it or you could crack someones ribs (-_-)
Let your opponent get submissions so they can learn, don't always make them fight 100% for it. They need to learn it properly going slowly before they understand it enough to go 100%
-edit-
If you rely on your power to get you into position you are not doing the move properly. Sometimes you may need to use brute force and whatnot, but if your timing is right and you execute the technique properly, you should be able to pull whatever you're doing off with minimal effort. The whole idea is to use as little energy as possible while making your opponent use as much as possible.
-edit-
I've just started and had a few minor injuries that affect my training (I'm still not allowed on the bottom when we drill mount because of the ribs) and could have all been avoided with proper technique and self control. Also, take it easy sometimes. So what if someone mounts you? Practice staying calm, conserving energy, and proper techniques to replace guard. If they tap you because you didn't explode and go haywire so what? Keep working on it til it's natural and you don't even need to use power, you can just use your timing and technique. Anyway, just a rant from me =D
Last edited by jamesc; 07-13-2010 at 08:29 PM.
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